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The "Center Mass" Myth and Ending a Gunfight
Jim Higginbotham
#1 Posted : Friday, February 12, 2010 12:10:07 AM
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Triggernometry

The "Center Mass" Myth and Ending a Gunfight

By Jim Higginbotham

Surviving a gunfight isn't what you think it is. Don’t let conventional wisdom get you killed.  A well place round to "center mass" in your attacker may not take him out of the fight. Lots of people stay in the fight after "center mass" hits, and some even win it.  If you expect to win your gunfight, you have to make sure that you have effectively ended the threat of your attacker.  One, two or even several well placed "center mass" shots may not do what you think it will, and learning to recognize this before you gunfight may save your life.

There is a self styled self defense “expert” under every rock, and perhaps two behind every bush, these days. If you have a pet theory on what might work on the street then you can probably find a champion for that idea who actually charges people to teach them that skill. But few of the experts out there have ever been in gunfights, and even fewer have studied real gunfights to see how things really work out when the bullets really fly for blood.

There are more misconceptions out there than I can cover in one article but the one that probably gets to me the most, even over all the caliber wars that rage interminably in the print and cyber media, is the nearly universal acceptance that shooting a miscreant “center mass” with ________(fill in your favorite make, model and caliber) shooting _________ (fill in your favorite ammunition) hyper speed truck killer is practically guaranteed to get the job done.

Having studied in this field from a number of decades, I have run into plenty of cases where bullets did not do what folks would have assumed. And I have now collected enough of these that I think that rather than being anomalies, they are actually closer to the norm. Center mass hits in a gunfight do not in most cases end the fight. Erroneous assumptions can get you killed!

There is a well known video in training circles in which a Highway Patrol officer shoots an armed subject 5 times “center mass” (this is not my assessment but the statement of his immediate supervisors which are interviewed on the full version of the hour long tape) with his 4” .357 Magnum revolver firing hollow point ammunition. All 5 hits failed to do the job and the subject was able to fire one round which struck the officer in the armpit. That round wondered around in the chest cavity and found his heart. The officer unfortunately died at the scene and his attacker is alive today.

In a class I conduct under the title "Fire For Effect" I start out by showing a video of standoff in which a hostage taker is fired on by police with .223 rifles and .40 caliber handguns. Throughout the whole disturbing sequence, which lasts about 10 seconds, the bad guy is hit multiple times in the torso with both rifle and pistol rounds. You can see him place his non-firing hand to his chest, clearly a lung is hit. However he is able to shoot his hostage 3 times, not rapidly. The hostage, a trim female, is active throughout the scene but later died from her wounds. In this case both the attacker and the victim had “center mass” hits that had no immediate effect.

I have accumulated confirmed incidents in which people have been shot “center mass” up to 55 times with 9mm JHP ammunition (the subject was hit 106 times, but 55 of those hits were ruled by the coroner to be each lethal in and of themselves) before he went down. During training at the FBI Academy we were told of a case in which agents shot a bank robber 65 times with 9mm, .223 and 00 buckshot – he survived! These are not rare cases. The happen quite often.

If a gunfight ever comes your way, your attacker may fall to a hit to the liver and he may not. He may fall to two or three hits to the kidneys, intestines or spleen, but he may not. He will certainly be in bad health. He likely will not survive, but what he does for the next several seconds to a few minutes is not guaranteed because you hit him "center mass."

Heart and lung hits don't statistically fare much better. I have three students and three other acquaintances who were all shot in a lung at the outset of gunfights. The students came to me after their fights to learn how to keep from getting shot again. Last time I checked all of those people were still alive and the people who shot them are still dead. Every one of them was able to respond effectively after being shot “center mass”, one might even say they were shot in the “A-zone”. And they were shot with .38 Special (three of them), 9mm, .357 Magnum and 8mm Mauser, so it's not all about caliber. One of those was a Chicom 12.7 mm round! He lived next door to me for many years.

So, what’s a person to do? First off, realize that one shot, even a fairly well placed shot may not do the job so don’t set there and admire your handiwork or wait for it to take effect. But even two hits may not get the job done!

After years of trying to get a grasp on this I have come to look at the results of shooting a living breathing target – be it a human attacker or a game animal – as falling into 3 or 4 categories. They are :

  1. Instant Collapse – this takes place 1 to 2 seconds from the shot being fired
  2. Rapid Collapse – this can take from 3 to 15 seconds and is quite common.
  3. Marginal Effect – this can even be a lethal hit but it takes from 15 to 300 (yes 300!) or even more seconds.
  4. The 4th is simply unacceptable and is a total failure.

The last category we don’t like to discuss but happens too often . We saw it recently in Washington with a Center Mass hit from an officer’s pistol and the subject was still walking around the next day.

What is “effective” shooting? Sad to say, it is demanding. It is also, I think, variable depending on the conditions. For example, the robber armed with a scattergun who is standing 10 feet away must be stopped “right now!” If you do not bring about Instant Collapse someone may very well die…that someone may be you!

On the other hand, if there is a gang banger launching bullets in your general direction using un-aimed fire about 20 yards away then a hit that brings about Rapid Collapse might do the job.

I cannot imagine a Marginally Effective result being very desirable in any case, but it does buy you some time in some cases.

How does this relate to hits? In order to achieve Instant Collapse you must scramble the “circuitry” that keeps the bad guy on the attack. That means the brain or spinal cord.

The head is not only a fairly difficult target to hit in the real world – because it moves a lot – but it is also difficult to penetrate and get a pistol bullet into the place it must be to be effective. For normal purposes we might write off the head, keeping it in reserve for very special circumstances.

The spine is not that easy to hit either. It isn't large, and to be effective the hit needs to be in the upper 1/3 of the spine or at a point about level with the tip of the sternum. I think that is around T11. But of course the huge problem is that it is hidden by the rest of the body. We are the good guys, we don’t go around shooting people in the back. So the exact location is something that can only be learned through lots of practice on 3D targets. Your point of aim on the surface changes with the angle at which the target is facing.

The bottom of the spine isn't much use. I know of several people shot in the pelvis. It did not break them down as many theorize. I am not saying it doesn’t happen but in the only case I know of in which it did the person who was “anchored” with a .357 magnum to the pelvis killed the person that shot him – you can shoot just fine from prone.

A shot, or preferably multiple shots to the heart and major arteries above the heart (not below!) may achieve Rapid Collapse, but not always. Officer Stacy Lim was shot in the heart at contact distance with a .357 Magnum and is still alive and her attacker is still dead! Score one for the good guys…or in this case gals!

So now what constitutes Marginal Effectiveness? A hit to the lungs! Even multiple hits to the lungs. Unfortunately though, most often lung hits are effective in ending the fight because the subject decides to quit the fight, not because he MUST. A famous Colonel Louis LeGarde once wrote what is considered "the" book on gunshot wounds. 65% of his patients shot through the lungs – with rifles! – survived with the predominant treatment being only bed rest!

Effective Practice and "Dynamic Response"

The goal of practice, one would think, is to make correct, effective shooting techniques a matter of reflex, so that you don't have to think about what you are doing in a gunfight.

Most people will perform under stress at about 50 to 60% as well as they do on the range…and that is if they practice a lot! If they only go to the range once every other month that performance level decreases dramatically. Shooting and weapons handling are very perishable skills. Also folks tend to practice the wrong stuff inadvertently. I put this in the classification of “practicing getting killed” but that too is a topic for another day.

Movement and Variation doesen't mean
innacurate shooting. In a real gunfight you and
your adversary will most likely
be moving. Click here if you can't see the video. 

Let’s talks about a basic response, what I call "Dynamic Response." Situations vary and this is not meant to be a universal answer, just one that will work for about 80% of scenarios.

It is pointless to stand still on the range and shoot a stationary target, unless you simply want to polish up some marksmanship fundamentals. That is a necessary part of learning to shoot. But if you are practicing for a fight, then fight!

Some rules.


  1. Don’t go to the range without a covering garment – unless of course you always carry your gun exposed (no comment).
  2. Don’t practice drawing your gun fast – ever! – while standing still.

Part of the Dynamic Response is to step off the line of attack (or on rare occasions that are dependent on circumstances backwards or forwards) and present the weapon with as much alacrity as you can muster and engage the target with overwhelming and accurate fire! By the way, never assume a fight is completely over just because you canceled one threat. Don’t practice “standing down” too quickly. We have a video attached which will hopefully give you the right idea.

I wish there was a formula of how to stand and how to hold you gun but there really isn't. We don’t do “Weaver vs. Isosceles vs. Modern Iso vs. whatever”. We don’t do “Thumbs Crossed vs. Thumbs Forward vs. Thumb Up…never mind.” Those are things for you to work out on your own. You use what makes YOU effective not what works for a guy who practices 50,000 rounds the week before a big match (that is not an exaggeration). Competitive shooters will throw out advice on what works for them. It may not work for you.

There is also not “one true gun”. Your skill is far more important that what you carry, within reason. We are not really talking about “stopping power”, whatever that is, here but rather effectiveness.

I can find no real measure – referred to by some as a mathematical model – of stopping power or effectiveness. And I have looked for 44 years now! Generally speaking I do see that bigger holes (in the right place) are more effective than smaller holes but the easy answer to that is just to shoot your smaller gun more – “a big shot is just a little shot that kept shooting”. True, I carry a .45 but that is because I am lazy and want to shoot less. A good bullet in 9mm in the right place (the spine!) will get the job done. If you hit the heart, 3 or 4 expanded 9mms will do about what a .45 expanding bullet will do or one might equal .45 ball….IF (note the big if) it penetrates. That is not based on any formula, it is based on what I have found to happen – sometimes real life does not make sense.

Practicing Dynamic Response means practicing with an open mind. Circumstances in a real gunfight are unpredictable and the more unpredictability you mix up into your practice the more your brain will be preparing itself for a possible real gunfight.

In real life, your gunfight may be dark, cold, rainy, etc. The subject may be anorexic (a lot of bad guys are not very healthy) or he may be obese (effective penetration and stopping power of your weapon). There are dozens of modifiers which change the circumstance, most not under your control. My only advice on this is what I learned from an old tanker: “Shoot until the target changes shape or catches fire!” Vertical to horizontal is a shape change, and putting that one more round into his chest at point blank range may catch his clothes on fire, even without using black powder.

We tell our military folks to be prepared to hit an enemy fighter from 3-7 times with 5.56 ball, traveling at over 3,000 feet per second. This approach sometimes worked, but I know of several cases where it has not, even "center mass."

With handguns, and with expanding bullets, it is even more unpredictable, but through years of study I have developed a general formula, subject to the above mentioned unpredictable circumstances.


  • 2-3 hits with a .45
  • 4-6 with a .40
  • 5-8 with a 9mm

With a revolver, the rounds are not necessarily more effective but I would practice shooting 3 in a .38 or .357 merely because I want 3 left for other threats. Not that those next three won’t follow quickly if the target hasn’t changed shape around my front sight blade. A .41, .44 or .45 Colt I would probably drop to two. Once again, they are not that much more effective than a .45 Auto but I don’t have the bullets to waste.

In any case, I want to stress the part that it is more about how you shoot than what you shoot, within reason. It is also more about the mindset and condition of the subject you are shooting which is not under your control. Take control – buy good bullets and put them where they count the most! And remember “anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting a whole lot!” (but please stop when the threat is cancelled, we don’t advocate “finishing shots”).

Gunfights are ugly things. I don't like to talk about the blood and guts aspects of defending life any more than the next guy. But it is our lives we are talking about here. By researching how gunfights are fought, and more importantly, how gunfights are won, it may give both of us the edge if a gunfight ever comes our way. I hope to cover many of the points I have learned and learned to train others in over the coming months. It isn't as easy to write about it as it is to teach it in person, but you can only succeed if you are willing to try.

I hope you enjoy the ride.

Press on!

Jim

 

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9 users thanked Jim Higginbotham for this useful post.
danwhite on 2/18/2010, napikwan on 2/18/2010, GMAN042764 on 3/1/2010, dickdintx on 3/1/2010, ricklevine on 3/5/2010, SteveI on 3/9/2010, jamesericdean on 3/14/2010, wts1277 on 3/15/2010, Huntingmom on 4/18/2010
asmotj
#2 Posted : Thursday, February 18, 2010 10:57:57 AM
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Jim,
That was about the most useful and well thought out article on "How you shoot" vs "what you shoot" and the dance between caliber shot placement and actual performance in a gun fight. You nailed that, I carry a government 45.
Phantom
#3 Posted : Thursday, February 18, 2010 12:53:44 PM
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Jim... this is "THE" most intelligent discussion on the subject I have ever read in my 50+ years of shooting and LE involvement. So many of us have spent an enormous amount of time in "practicing to be killed" myself included. I thirst for more of your wisdom and experience. Please, please, please share more of it.
stone cobra
#4 Posted : Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:02:40 PM
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Very good reading!  It is amazing how Hollywood has given the misconception that one round will elliminate the threat.  Even as a LEO, I see officers falling to this.  Thanks for the information, I will print this out and lay it on the briefing table at work.

Thanks,

J. Paletta

Stone Cobra Tactical

"Train like your life depends on it"

www.stonecobratactical.com

Jim Higginbotham
#5 Posted : Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:18:04 PM
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Phantom wrote:
Jim... this is "THE" most intelligent discussion on the subject I have ever read in my 50+ years of shooting and LE involvement. So many of us have spent an enormous amount of time in "practicing to be killed" myself included. I thirst for more of your wisdom and experience. Please, please, please share more of it.

Beleive me, this is an "I feel your pain" article not an "I know it all" article.  Took me a lot of years to "get it".

Thank you for the kind words!

Jim

w31agt
#6 Posted : Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:57:15 PM
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jim,i showed your video and post to my g/f.

 

she just finished her CCW class,and is amazed at the facts you stated,especially the statement concerning how to stand and holding the gun.

when shopping for her gun,i stressed to her that above all,she has to be comfortable and confident in her control and aiming of her weapon,before even considerring pulling the trigger.

we are all human beings,we have physical quirks that are unique to each person.you just can't make a blanket rule for every person to fire a weapon accurately.

 

thanks for your insight

Sicklesteel
#7 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:20:00 AM
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Jim, I just finished reading this article and watching the video you link us to at YouTube. Then I watched another one of you teaching a class on a range discussing and demonstrating some interesting ideas in tactical pistol gun fighting. Great stuff!

Then I thought of my son immediately and wondered if he has been taught these things. He is a brand new US Marshal and I just forwarded this along to him and asked him that question. Great discussion.

You sir, are a very knowledgeable fellow. Thanks for sharing this. Great stuff. sharing
ericbarach
#8 Posted : Monday, March 01, 2010 9:26:20 AM
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I'm not a professional shooter, but I am experienced  in gunshot wound management. As an Emergency Medicine Physician in a level one Trauma Center in Flint MIchigan, I see the after effects of GSW's every day. From a physiologic standpoint, there are only two ways to incapacitate a shooter: cause enough blood loss to stop perfusion of the brain, or disconnect the electrical system of the body - a bullet in the brain or high spinal cord.

The brain can function up to 30 or 40 seconds without an energy source (glucose) and oxygen, before the shooter loses consciousness. During this time, a individual motivated by rage, adrenalin, and/or drugs; can continue to return fire. Thirty seconds is more than enough time to empty a full clip of ammunition. The best way to cause blood loss is by punching large holes in a major blood containing structure.  The "center of mass" described in the article includes the heart, aorta, vena cava, left lobe of the liver, and the spleen: all highly vascular areas. Projectiles in the abdomen, pelvic, lungs, and extremities, may eventually cause enough blood loss to be lethal, but now you are looking at minutes to hours before the shooter exsanguinates to the point where he has lost enough blood to maintain brain perfusion.

Extensive tissue destruction and pain are NOT factors in who will be able to return fire. The type of response to pain and tissue injury, without immediate death, varies between individuals. Some individuals, due to their psychologic and physiologic makeup, will go into shock from a broken toe, others can limbs blown off and still function in a gunfight. If a person stands and fights in a gun battle instead of surrendering or running; you should assume they have enough adrenalin pumping and enough emotional/psychologic predisposition, to continue to return fire, even if hit. 

As mentioned in the article, caliber by itself, does not determine lethality. Any bullet made can kill. People die from shot from a .25 caliber pocket pistol, while others survive shots from .44 magnums. If the projectile doesn't hit a structure with a major blood source, they will not bleed out. If they are hit in the heart or aorta, they will eventually bleed out. However from a standpoint of how fast an individual bleeds out; large caliber projectiles punch larger holes in vessels, increasing the rate of blood loss. To effectively decrease the  time to exsanguination, more holes in a highly vascular area are better than one. 

E. Barach, M.D., FACEP

Reaper351
#9 Posted : Monday, March 01, 2010 10:00:30 AM

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Nice article Jim,
The real reason "Center Mass" is taught to students is that they need something large to shoot at and that most of the vital organs and vessals are in that target area. Under stress, pin point accuracy goes out the window when you are being shot at. The upper torso gives the shooter a greater chance to hit his target.
The main point to "Center Mass" is to shoot at the "Center of Mass" of whatever is offered to you. If a suspect is behind cover, you may only have a head and a hand to shoot at. If this is the case you shoot at the "Center of Mass" of the largest body part offered to you. This is how I teach students what "Center Mass" means. It means the "Center (of) Mass" that is offered to you.
Keep up the good work.
The only limitation is no limitation and no limitation is the only limitation - Bruce Lee
But whoa to you who does evil, for he does not carry the sword in vein, but to weild His wrath - Romans 13:04
All warfare is based on deception - Sun Tzu
usmcoklahoma
#10 Posted : Monday, March 01, 2010 11:49:02 AM
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jim, this is a very informative artical. im a us marine, two tours to iraq and an infanrtyman. this artical made me rethink the center mass idea that we were trained on. i carry a .45 also and i used to think a shot to the chest would end the fight, but now i know i have to rethink that strategy. thanks for the artical

WhiteKnight
#11 Posted : Monday, March 01, 2010 12:32:54 PM
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Dear Jim:

I just opened my email without expectations to encounter my first issue of Guns America. I can't conjecture why I received it, but I am forever grateful and will join whatever to continue receiving it. I immediately went to your article for very special purpose. I live in a tough neighborhood and need all the review I can get. GREAT, GREAT TEACHING!

 At the same time, my memory of my only gunfight 43 years ago obviously stays with me. It was a big enough story to make the Front Page of the Los Angeles Times, December 27, 1967. The next year I was Gold Medalist in the California Championships. I was good enough that I thought it conveniently adequate to carry a .25 Browning Auto in a special second pocket. It happened in Wilmington, California, the Port of Los Angeles, where, in those days I was a GP making house calls including some bad neighborhoods. I was a Reserve Deputy Sheriff.When it was all over, one of the few statements alleged to me that was accurate was that "Any time you shoot someone five times and they can (with help) move, it's time to carry a bigger gun."

I'll relate the full story if you're interested, but the few points I want to make is that nothing replaces competent practice, my gunfight was a time of unrealness. (I'd walked into a 211 (armed robbery) in progress, and the lookout came up behind me and put a knife to my back.) The second is that every shot must be a "surprise" shot no matter how rapid the discharges. There were two perps. I was arrogant and failed to carry a second clip. I shot the knife wielder after whirling away from him 5 times - as you shot. Why five? I was repeatedly asked, but it took to days to reflect and realize why. The answer is obvious. Five shots is a rapid fire string that I done countless times. Which left me only two for the perp who was holding what looked like a canon to the pharmacist's head as he knelt and was emptying the safe on the other side of the partition.

When I knew I had to confront him, there was no thought of prayer. But without doubt, the Hand of G-d was on me that day.

The less wounded one had dragged the one I shot in the neck and chest with the five rounds to their car, I tried to find them in traffic. (They were picked up on my description a few hours later [Old 4 door Chevy, faded blue and white. License # HYF 424] When I returned to the pharmacy, the first detective had arrived,he asked if I thought I'd hit them. There was no bravado in me. I was consciously experiencing every breath. I simply said, "Yes." He asked me how many times. The question befuddled me. "Every time." The range was less than 10 feet. But he was on the phone and he said something incredible to me. He said 'the Doc says he hit them every time. We know that's impossible, but there aren't any ricochets around. Regardless bow rapidly, S-Q-U-E-E-Z-E each shot off. 

 

Incidentally, the story immediately went national. All over the country, law enforcement officers discarded the .25 as a second weapon. And - in those days, there were no hollow point, expanding .25's.

 

Thank you again,

Paul Goodley

www.drgoodley.com

 

 

 

 

 

irvin lehman
#12 Posted : Monday, March 01, 2010 2:18:07 PM
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Hi Jim

 

For all these years you have always been articulate and accurate in what you teach.  This article is one of those!  You have stripped the BS about "one shot stops", "magic bullets", "magic calibers", ect away and laid open the truth.  Everyone who carries a pistol for self defense should be made to read this article every month they carry.

 

Thanks.

 

be safe   irv

www.southernexposuretraining.com

Snake69
#13 Posted : Monday, March 01, 2010 3:49:36 PM
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Good Article.

Enjoyed the response from the doc in Flint, MI.

I've "been there, done that" and learned a lot in the process.  However, there is one, "bottom-line, back-to-the-wall" principle I adhere to:

If I'm forced to resort to lethal force defending my family or myself, I refuse to take chances with anything but COMPLETE INCAPACITATION of the threat.  As the doc said, 2 ways to accomplish that but 1 of them can take a while happening, even if the suspect doesn't have a system full of meth or coke or any number of other substances, or be so mentally unbalanced as to be virtually "pain-proof", or be so committed to their mission they "refuse" to go down.   

Two unique incidents come to mind: 7 hits @ 30yds w/5.56-all "center mass" - meth cook turned and ran into the wall several feet away, keeping the S&W 629 in his hand firmly gripped the entire time,          23 hits @ 10yds w/.40S&W Win. LE 180gr "Ranger SXT", .223 Hornady 55gr "TAP",        2 hits with 12ga. "00" and Rifled Slug (that, by god, worked!) - suspect covered 15 yrds and got off 4 AK rounds before shoulder hit by 12 ga slug.    Granted, both these guys were a) cranked or coked up  b) arguably mentally unbalanced and c) committed 100% to killing somebody.  But the point is, they took some killin'!

Let's not even talk about the psychological/physiological demands on performance and ability brought on by "critical stress"!  That's a nice way of saying let's don't bring up the fact that quite a few of our shots often miss, for one reason or another, when the pucker factor gets to those levels 

 It's too late to say "long story short"...so I'll just say "in conclusion"....

I have decided that a lethal force encounter is far too complex and dynamic for me to be able to accurately predict "actions and effects".  I may not have access to all the pertinent facts influencing the thugs side of the equation and, God forbid, he may be better prepared than me!!!  Therefore, if faced with such a situation, I intend to apply a generous application of .40SW 180gr Federal HST, in a timely manner and, hopefully, deliberately and specifically placed so to achieve maximum effect on the catastrophic incapacitation of the assailants(s). 

I carry a gun built and designed for such a situation, as much Xtra ammo as is comfortable under the circumstances, my gun is well used, and I've got some practical experience in the matter...but so much hinges on factors I can't control.  The only thing I can "assume" is my life and/or the life of a loved one will depend on what I do, how well I do it and how quickly I get it done.    

 Remember, action beats re-action...always.  But, quite often, it's skill, composure and determination that ultimately decides the final outcome of the contest.

grumman581
#14 Posted : Monday, March 01, 2010 3:58:59 PM
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I've been shot once by a kid who tried to rob me. He had a snub nosed .38. With the adrenaline and everything, I didn't even know that I had been shot. Being a juvi, he was released to his parents before I had even finished being patched up. Of course, that was back in the good old days when the punks would ask for your money *before* they shot you. These days, they shoot you first and *then* ask for your money.
Heartland Collector
#15 Posted : Monday, March 01, 2010 9:16:00 PM
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Great article Jim and well placed shots :)   As an old LE officer and instructor to bad we can't pass the calmness of wisdom and age along to our younger brothers.  If we could instill in them the hostile is not a human but a target and the bullseye is the goal (the bullseye being that headshot that puts the lights out immediately) and what I was told early on "the gun fight isn't over until you walk away and go home!"  You are right on with move and shoot, constantly going over in your mind "what if" scenarios plus mix it up and don't get hung up on the double tap.

Years ago my officers wanted to break from the standard paper punching and do a scenario with full duty load.  I set up several colored real life type targets, with ballons attached to the hostiles and innocents.  Their job was to identify and engage by popping the ballon on the hostile, multiple stations, multiple angles and popped smoke to complicate.  To everyone's surprise including my own, with a duty load of 46 rounds the performance was  not impressive.  The officer relied on having to many rounds, to much adrenaline and didn't realize the disturbance of the air on the bullet flight path was enough to move the ballon before impact unless pretty much perfectly placed.

Thereafter I taught cover, shoot (center mass) to slow the hostile and go for the head shot.  Tall order for anyone, but I firmly believe if you know your weapon and your capabilites (I have different confidence levels with different weapons I carry as to the finite area of shot placement) it is achievable as long as you don't humanize the hostile. Hypervigilence is going to be a factor no matter what but train yourself to react autonomically.  First control yourself then you can teach others to control themselves.

Thanks again for a great article that is totally on point with reality!

Respectfully, Old Retired Cop, Still Deadly

wts1277
#16 Posted : Monday, March 15, 2010 9:42:47 PM
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Thank you for a great article very informative.

whiskeyjack
#17 Posted : Thursday, March 18, 2010 3:25:47 PM
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I don't post much here.  And I'm not an avid shooter even though I've got the hardware (S&W 4053, Taurus PT140 and an XDM 9mm). 

This article provided me with a sensible foundation from which to launch at least several elements of self-defense strategy.  Up to now, my hand-gun self-defense strategy has been mostly a re-active exercise in fantasy:  "if this happens, I'll do that; if that happens, I'll do this". . . .with no thought of what will likely happen during or after my response.  Newton's Law of Motion: "for every action there's always an equal and opposite reaction" - this article helps clarify the reality of the Hollywood gunfights we've been spoon-fed for years.

There's a mental preparation to self-defense that has escaped me.  This is weird because I've witnessed the demise of many deer with very precise shots to the heart.  And, you're right....they do NOT drop dead in their tracks as so many hunters would have everyone believe.  A neck shot will do that but that target is narrower and less forgiving - just like we were reading about earlier.

'Strange how, until reading this, I was not able to make the mental leap from the "shot-response" of a big game animal to that of an assassin.  Weight can be similar.  Mammalian internal physiology is similar.  Trauma is mostly identical.  So, it follows that the assassin's physiological shot-response will be similar...with a deadly twist: if the assassin is still armed she will respond if able.   Right now though, I doubt seriously if I could shoot a woman.

This article was the kick in the  a s s  I needed to learn to think and to shoot for self-defense.  I would certainly benefit from similar common sense, plain-speech training or recommendations that address the reality of shooting for self-defense.   Thank you.

Question: was that your .45 in the video?

nferil
#18 Posted : Saturday, March 20, 2010 11:37:43 AM
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It’s amazing how many can view flawed analysis in a cleverly written essay as being brilliant in some sort of way.

OK, so Jim cites some selective examples were COM hits failed at quick incapacitation. Are the readers to assume then that COM hits have statistically been and will continue to be ineffective in most cases? I seriously doubt it.

Jim also appears to be confusing COM hits with COM aiming. Aiming and hitting are definitely not the same thing. The advantage to aiming COM is the increased likeliness of hitting a vital area, especially under stressfire conditions. For "average" shooters, aiming at and hitting COM under stress would be a considerable challenge let alone aiming and hitting a central nervous system (CNS) shot.

So, what is Jim suggesting here in the end, aim at other than COM??? You know, there still is room under that rock for more "self styled self defense experts"!

Jim Higginbotham
#19 Posted : Sunday, March 28, 2010 10:14:06 AM
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whiskeyjack wrote:

<snippage>

Question: was that your .45 in the video?

Thanks for the kind words.  The gun is a Commercial Colt manufactured in 1951.  It is Armoloyed.

Jim

Jim Higginbotham
#20 Posted : Sunday, March 28, 2010 10:27:38 AM
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nferil wrote:

<snippage>
So, what is Jim suggesting here in the end, aim at other than COM??? You know, there still is room under that rock for more "self styled self defense experts"!

Absolutely....this is one of the most oft cited reasons cited in After Action Reports of the over 12,000 students I have trained who have seen combat list as a reason for thier survival. Specifically it is the fact that we use a target that has an aiming point in the high chest and only 1/4th the size of the FBI QIT zone.  Weapons handling skills are the next.

To be precise, on a threat which is in the open the actual "center of mass" is about 2" above the navel.  Practicing to shoot there is practicing for failure.  It is true enough that a significant percentage of combatants may quit the fight when shot there, about the same per centage will quit when shot at and missed.   That percentage will not diminsih if you shoot them in the right place yet you might effect physical incapacitaion on the other signficant percentage of aggressors who would not have been impressed with hits to the midsection  (like the fellow who shot the 4 officers in Washington recently or the ex-boxer who nealy beat the officer to death on a regularly seen video, both of whom were shot "center mass" with no effect).

Training to shoot people in the gut is an admission that we are willing to depend on luck not marksmanship.

Back to my rockInnocent

Best regards,

Jim

 

Temmi
#21 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 2:43:05 PM
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REALLY great article…. Thanks….

Sadly (or thankfully) I have nothing to add and no experience to draw from but even with my VERY limited experience it seems clear that practice is the most important aspect, within reason, in stopping a fight.

One thing I missed in your article is how to train while “adrenalized”, I have seen and felt the effects of “buck fever” and can speak first hand on how difficult it can be to get control of the emotions involved.

I have never had any type of animal fire back at me… although I was charged by a 250Lb Boar.

In future articles I would like your opinion on that aspect of defensive shooting.

Thanks again for a great read.

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