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Busting the Magnum Myth - Choosing YOUR Ideal Hunting Cartridge
Ross Seyfried
#1 Posted : Monday, July 19, 2010 5:44:43 PM
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Busting the Magnum Myth!

Choosing YOUR Ideal Hunting Cartridge

by Ross Seyfried

The humble .270, with 150 grain Nosler Partitions in the hands of the finest game shot I have ever known flattened this big lion with a single shot.
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The same .270 that worked so well for the grand master on most game in the World was also perfect for his very young grandson and an impala.
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One of the most successful Huntress in the world uses a .270 and Winchester Failsafe ammunition exclusively. It is not about size and power, but precision and great bullets.
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Cartridges like the (from left) the .270, 6.5 x 55 Swede and the .300 Winchester are all wonderful and effective cartridges that do not handicap the hunter; while the .30 and .33 G&A (Now the Remington Ultra) offer little advantage and often a huge handicap.
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Bullets are the second half of the formula for success. On the left is a 270 grain .375 of poor design that failed to penetrate. On the right is a much smaller Nolser Partition that worked to perfection.
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The headstamp on the case does not matter] (L) 7 x 65R which is a rimmed version of the .280 Remington is odd, but the rifle has never missed. .30-06 needs no introduction and works for almost anyone. My favorite .30, the ancient .300 H&H . . . critters cannot tell the cartridge is old when the bullet hits them. All of these are easy to hit with, like the .22 LR and very unlike the .577 Nitro (far right)
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A tale of three rifles: (L) My son’s first centerfire, a Remington .30-06 that served him very well. (C) My go-to meat gun for bad days or bad conditions; a long-extractor Model 70, .300 Win in stainless and plastic. The rifle is bullet-proof and will answer almost any hunting question anywhere in the world. (R) My wee Blaser falling block 7 x 65R is like a .280 Remington, weighs only 6 pounds, has taken 14 head of big game and never missed. The three rifles are very diverse, but all work perfectly and make hitting easy.
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A big bull and an old rifle for a small caliber; nothing fancy, everything perfect.

Kinetic energy does not matter. Accuracy almost does not matter. The headstamp on the case certainly does not matter. Having more shells in the magazine does not matter. How well you can hit with your rifle is almost all that matters!

What if I were to tell you that there is a rifle out there that will let you take more deer and elk; and bears and sheep and caribou and coyotes; and kudu? Yes, there is a rifle out there that will make you more successful in virtually any hunting situation you can imagine. Now your mind immediately goes to the biggest, fastest, largest, longest and most expensive kind of machine modern technology can create. But alas, this is going to be much simpler and down to Earth than you might imagine.

I am about to offer you the keys to the kingdom of hunting-rifle success; keys gleaned from several decades of hunting and the observation of more than 1000 head of big game being taken. This is not about me, but about the dozens of men, women and young shooters I have guided or known around the world. Folks just like you who I have watched succeed and fail, often very simply because of the rifle, or more accurately the cartridge they have chosen.

Perhaps my most succinct quote is, “you cannot buy skill.” I firmly believe that. I began to form the opinion in my competitive pistol shooting days. At the time, and for quite a while I lived on top of the hill. I watched others, who were actually more technically skilled than I, begin to approach the level that could possibly beat me. They were close, very close but one by one I watched them get to the top of their game and never be able to beat me. The reason was that they thought that as they reached that upper eschelon, they had to buy the new widget, holster or fashion-pistol, and that it would be this, and not pure practiced skill, that would best me. When I saw them go for the gear, I knew I still had them. They gave up their thinking that they could beat me by practicing harder and learning their game better, and vested their faith in what they thought was superior equipment. They failed because they gave up on their own ability to keep doing the next thing right. Gear was not the answer.

Too, here in Oregon where we have guided lots of successful elk hunters, I see hunters with the most expensive, plastic super-accurate “elk rifles” often fail miserably. The hunters did not need a rifle that would shoot the expensive and claimed half-inch group, with the flattest trajectory and loudest roar. Instead they needed a rifle that would allow them to hit a soccer ball at 150 yards. So, while you cannot buy skill, it is in my opinion very easy to buy a false sense of security that turns into what amounts to a handicap!

As we begin this journey of practicality I will share another important concept that leads to success. Your dedicated editor and I worried about the seasonal timing of this story, worried that this is not big game hunting season and that it was unreasonable to bother you with hunting rifles months before hunting season. We thought that this might be the wrong time of year to think about your deer rifle. However, in reality, it is the perfect time to think about rifles. You should spend some time and effort thinking about the choice, this critical and very important choice. If possible you should go to the range where hopefully other shooters will let you test drive their rifles. And then once the choice is made, you need to spend the summer practicing.

If there is a way to buy skill with a rifle, it is to buy ammunition or the reloading components to make ammunition and then pull the trigger... a lot!

So far I have incorrectly referred to this as a “rifle” choice, but in this article we are going to focus on the far more critical choice of the perfect hunting cartridge. The rifle that fires the cartridge is important, but with the correct kind of cartridge, a wide variety of rifle shapes and actions can allow you to perform very well. In a way the rifle you use can be determined by personal preference. I would caution, as you consider your perfect rifle, that thinking about making up for a bad first shot, with a second or third shot; is heading in the wrong direction. While I am bothering you with my philosophies, here is another that I believe to be a fundamental truth of shooting, “you cannot miss fast enough to win.” Focus your mind on a very basic principle, make the first shot count.

Shooters and hunters like horsepower. I am as or more guilty than the next guy, but in my “maturity,” I have begun to see the reality of it all. Perhaps the best example of what almost every hunter does not want would be the two really big, fast, flat, high-energy modern super-magnums. These are the .300 and .338 Remington Ultra Mags. Now before you think I am picking on Remington, I am not. I detest these cartridges and can do so on the most honest grounds . . . I designed them.

Before Remington adopted them as factory rounds they were the .30 G&A and .33 G&A, invented, designed and perfected by yours truly. They are based on the .404 Jeffery case and offer more or less 200 fps more velocity than the existing kings of the day. The numbers are impressive; but do they really give you anything that will help you catch your buck? The subject of “energy” is a long-debated one, but rest assured it does not matter at all.

Accuracy can be dismissed, because while rifles cause accuracy, cartridges do not. So we are left with trajectory. If you drive a 180 grain 30 caliber or a 250 grain .338” bullet 200 fps faster, will it help you take the buck or bull? If we begin with a sensible 200 yard zero we see that the super 300’s bullet path will drop 5 ½” at 300 yards and 16 inches below the point of aim at 400 yards; while the pokey old .300 magnums are below the point of aim 6.3 and 18.4 inches respectively. The .338s are similar; the fast ones are essentially 7 inches low at 300 and 20 inches down at 400; while the slower bullets are 8” and 23 inches low. So at the end of the day we are talking about an advantage of about three inches in trajectory at 400 yards.

Are you good enough with your rifle to prove three inches at 400 yards in the field? Probably not! Can you, with any rifle, hold ¾ minute of angle out in the woods or plains, without a bench rest? Now, can you hold that ¾ minute in the face of very intimidating muzzle blast and recoil? In my experience there are very, very few hunters who can hold three fourths-of-a-basketball at those ranges. Worse yet many, when armed with my two magnum “children,” otherwise known as the screaming cannons, cannot hold ¾ of a basketball at 100 yards! Dammit, practicality is an ugly thing. But remember I only used my cartridges as examples of the kind of mistake that is often made when trying to buy skill and success.

Within the realm of cartridges that are capable of taking big game, success in bringing down any animal, your actual animal, is dependent on two things, where your bullet strikes, combined with the bullet that does the striking. Those two things and those two alone will determine your success or failure. Bullets are a subject for another time. But notice that left out of this are the issues of trajectory of the bullet, retained energy, and many other buzz phrases that have been used to burn up many a hunting magazine page.

A cartridge that you like, that you are comfortable with, have confidence in and one that does not intimidate your subconscious goes a long way to helping you make that precise hit. The same cartridge needs to offer you reasonably flat trajectory, penetration and “killing power”. Of course there is not just one cartridge that will do the job, but we can begin to define the performance level and to a degree the cartridges themselves that will help you.

Without any drum roll, they are not magical, mysterious or spectacular; most of them have been around for a long time. You may have the greatest hunting rifle of all time standing right in your rack. Essentially we are looking at cartridges that can drive a sensible hunting bullet at something between 2500 and 3000 fps. That velocity range will give a hunter all of the trajectory he can reasonably use. We now need only to define bullet weight and caliber to answer the question.

But before we do, we need to digress for a moment and realize that shooters are not created equally. That is, some shooters are more able to hit well in the face of relatively heavy recoil and muzzle blast than others. I can say that heavy recoil makes precision more difficult for any shooter. That is, more recoil requires more muscle tension to control the rifle; to keep it from hitting you in the head or jumping out of your hands. There is nothing easier to hit with than a .22 and few things more difficult than a .577 Nitro.

Young shooters or others learning the art of rifle shooting simply should not be exposed to violent cartridges. And different people of all shapes and sizes perceive recoil and noise differently. Some are quite intimidated by a .30-06, more are handicapped by a .300 Weatherby; while on the other extreme I know a couple of riflemen who shoot a .378 Weatherby with absolute precision. All of this is to say, “you be the judge of what works for you”. But, be honest with yourself.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with admitting to yourself that you do not like the recoil and noise generated by a .300 magnum. There is much wrong with crippling a deer because you fired the shot with your eyes closed and a trigger finger that lashed out like a shark bite. There isn’t really an absolute answer to the question, but I think we can crowd it into a relatively small corner.

The game we hunt has some bearing on the caliber we choose, but not as much as you might think. I suppose 90 percent of the critters we chase will be in the deer-size realm; whether they are white tails, mule deer, antelope, goats, caribou, sheep, impala, wildebeest or pigs. Elk and the larger African plains animals may fit into a slightly larger category, but again the larger and tougher a critter is, the more critical bullet design and placement become. So, when asked to make a choice between a hunter who hits the “heart” with a light rifle or the “green stuff” with a big .375, I opt for the little gun every time.

As we begin to sum up, let’s say the .243” bores are probably a little on the light side. That is not to say a 6mm cannot be a good, or perhaps even a great white tail rifle. It certainly can, but the bullet mass and momentum can leave us with marginal penetration. On the opposite end of the spectrum, let’s rule out the .375” bores and probably the .338s as well. They are fantastic calibers, but with too much recoil to make it “easy” for most. We are beginning to zero in on the .25 to .30 calibers and will toss in the 8mms just because some of us like them. Now it is time for the different case sizes to weigh in.

I began by saying the super-large, beyond-magnums are a bad idea, but how much gun powder do we need? It is easy to say a .25-20 is too small, but as soon as we get to the .257 Roberts we have plenty of speed with 100 to 120 grain bullets. The smaller 6.5mm cartridges like the .260 Remington work very well, as illustrated by more than a century of almost invincible success of the 6.5 Mannlicher Schoenauer and 6.5 x 55 Swedish. The 7mms become magnificent and while it is ancient there are few better cartridges on Earth than the 7 x 57mm Mauser and its grandchild the 7mm-08 fits in the same performance realm.

Of course the mid-sized .30 caliber cartridges need little introduction or discussion. To me, the .308 does not put the 30 caliber’s best foot forward, while the .30-06 has enough case capacity to push the 165-180 grain bullets at interesting speed without undue recoil. Of course my personal favorite .30 caliber cartridge the .300 Holland & Holland only proves two things. First I am archaic and that critters really cannot read the headstamps on your brass.

There is a certain intrigue and much success in the land of belted magnums. The .257 and 270 Weatherby rounds are wonderful things. They generate lots of speed and very flat trajectory, while the light bullet weights keep recoil at manageable levels. We can add the short beltless magnums of the same calibers to this list also. (However, the added speed demands bullets of very special design and quality, or penetration and success may fail.) The 7mm Remington Magnum is almost legendary. But, it now has enough bullet weight to generate significant recoil and comes with the same bullet-design demands as the smaller magnums.

Ah, I see the guy in the back of the room waving his hand. He feels like the kid on Christmas morning who did not find a package under the tree . . . “errr, maybe you forgot something?” No, I just saved perhaps the best for last. When in doubt . . . get a .270 Winchester!

Now the guy in the front row is gasping, “Yes, but what about Elmer Keith, and I want to hunt elk.” First, like my dislike for my super-power cartridges, I can make a pretty honest case for my .270. I grew up, not a student of Jack O’Connor, but as a pure disciple of Elmer Keith. I not only read everything he wrote, but had the great good fortune to know him well and to become his friend. At the time his opinion was perfectly founded and honest, “only big bores and bullet weight can make a rifle that will kill well.”

The equation at the time was valid, for him. But there were two parts of it that the old master did not factor in. First, he possessed almost super-human skill with any firearm. He could shoot his .577 like it was a .22. He thought we were all like him. The humble gentleman thought of himself as normal, but he was not. His advice would not apply to the majority of us who are intimidated by the flash and recoil of the bigger magnums of today. The second part is that he did not have the great advantage of the “super-bullets,” we have today. Bullet design and construction are far more important than size, and today's bullet technology has stretched the results of what the smaller, less powerful cartridges can produce.

The most successful African Safari I ever guided was shot with a .270 Winchester loaded with 150 grain Nosler Partition bullets. The rifle was ancient and worn, a pre-war Model 70. The “driver” was past 70 years old and this was his only rifle; a rifle that he has used for many decades in most of the hunting grounds of the world. He shot two extremely tough animals, a zebra and a wildebeest, first. Each fell to a single shot, as did a huge lion. He broke a sitatunga’s neck (that was the only target) offhand, in the wind, at 300 yards. An elk-sized kudu bull tumbled when the bullet hit the point of his shoulders. There was no real magic; just a great rifle, fine bullet and unimaginable skill on the part of the rifleman.

Over the last dozen years my son and I have guided for more than 100 elk here at Elk Song. They have been taken with a remarkable spectrum of rifles ranging from 4-bore to 6.5 mm, with a good selection of .577s, .416s, .375s, 338s and .300s in the middle. Many of them have been taken with .270s and I can tell you that no cartridge puts an elk on the ground more quickly than the .270 Winchester loaded with the magnificent (and now non-existent) 140 grain Winchester Failsafe bullet. (Some of the Barnes X designs are producing similar results.) The reason for the grand success is twofold, and returns us to the beginning: first the hunters hit very precisely with the gentle rifle and second, the bullet performance is off the scale.

So, at the end of the day, which cartridge is the best one for you? There is no absolute answer, but moderation is a very good idea. Choose a normal-sized cartridge case, with a .25-30 caliber bullet; then practice, practice, practice. When you gain complete confidence in your rifle it will almost hit for you.

 

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7 users thanked Ross Seyfried for this useful post.
OkieRon on 7/22/2010, marksjones on 7/22/2010, AndyL51 on 7/22/2010, Libertyrules on 7/22/2010, watkibe on 7/22/2010, wildbill on 8/16/2010, Nick559 on 8/16/2010
freedomwarrior
#2 Posted : Thursday, July 22, 2010 5:14:38 AM
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Amen!  Over the last 42 years, I have hunted with my father in Oregon.  With the exception of one hunt, he has carried a beautiful Husquevarna chambered in .270 Winchester that he bought when he was 18 years old (he is now 76).  I have seen him take many game animals with it (and always one shot kills).  The only time I ever saw him carry anything else was when he decided to use a Browning Auto chambered in .30-06 that he inherited from his father... he put three rounds in a monster 6 point bull elk (at 20 yards) when hunting in Heppner, Oregon and the bull did not drop!  We searched all day and could never find that elk.  I had never seen my dad miss so I figured the scope got knocked out of alignment... at the end of the day, I set up a target at the same distance and drilled it... the only thing we could ever figure is that he was using silver tip bullets and they may have exploded on the hide.  I know this sounds crazy, but I can remember my granddad saying that he had the same thing happen to him before and this was his explanation.  Anyway, I have made it very clear that when the dreaded day comes that dad is nol onger able to hunt, I only want one thing... that beautiful .270 that is full of so many great memories! 

OkieRon
#3 Posted : Thursday, July 22, 2010 9:26:51 AM
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Agree with what you are saying.

I grew up using a Marlin 30-30 because that was all that was needed. Where a long shot was around 100yds, and needed first shot accuracy. Trying to shoot a running deer in the woods, impossible, tracking a wounded deer, extremely time consuming.

The newest, biggest, fastest stuff is nice I guess but I like to shoot what I can hit with.

Thanks for the post.

beretta40
#4 Posted : Thursday, July 22, 2010 10:41:50 AM
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Ross, This advice is more than sound, especially for the average shooter. I love my big magnums, but for 99% of most situations, the .30-'06 class of cartridge is more than adequate for sensible big game hunting distances. 

Jim Higginbotham
#5 Posted : Thursday, July 22, 2010 10:56:56 AM
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I love the sound of a nail being hit squarely on the head!

Spot on!

Jim H.

deadeye
#6 Posted : Thursday, July 22, 2010 1:52:38 PM
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I agree with Ross, but it took me 40 years to figure it out.  I have owned a Sako in .300 Weatherby, a Winchester .375 H&H and a real blaster a Remington Custom Shop .375 H&H that weighed only 6 lbs 10 oz.   I have sold them all.  I now hunt with only two guns.  A Kimber Montana 7mm-08 with a Leopold 2x7 scope that weighes only 5 lbs 15 oz.  The recoil is so mild that it goes unnoticed while shooting game.  My second rifle is a 45-70 that shoots a 405 gr bullet at just over 2300 fps.  The recoil is still within my comfort level and it hits Texas Hogs with authority.

watkibe
#7 Posted : Thursday, July 22, 2010 2:02:26 PM
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WOW ! The internet is an odd but wondrous thing. Ross, your "paper" articles in G&A were something I looked forward to and devoured religously every month. You disappeared from the magazine though, and I have missed your articles, opinions, and outlook. I wondered what you were doing, but didn't stumble across you until I read your article in my email today. I'm glad I found you again !
As to your article: my by-now vintage Remington 788 in 308 has hit what I looked at every time, and as far away as I should be looking, for almost 30 years. I have no fear of it, just great confidence. On the other hand, I recently satisfied my whim to acquire a Savage 111 in 338 Win Mag. To be honest, I was a little afraid of it before I ever shot it, but plenty of practice with cast bullet loads is helping. Still, I have to tell myself "strong grip, cheek/shoulder weld, head down, everything else relaxed to absorb recoil..." every time before I pull the trigger.
Bear season here in Washington actually starts on August 1st, and I have been preparing to take my 338...until I read this article. The 308 is plenty, and it's an old friend. Maybe I will be doing myself and a bear-to-be-named-later a favor by taking it. Thanks a lot, Ross, great to read your fine work and much respected opinion again.
hoghunter284
#8 Posted : Thursday, July 22, 2010 2:31:18 PM
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Sir you said it all with the last statement! Practice does make perfect. Thanks for all the wisdom you have shared with us.
5034922494
#9 Posted : Thursday, July 22, 2010 3:38:40 PM
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I THINK ELMER WOULD TURN OVER IN HIS GRAVE IF HE COULD READ THIS ARTICLE.YOUR RIGHT ON ABOUT MODERN BULLET PERFORMANCE.I HAVE BUT ONE RIFLE I COUNT ON FOR EVERYTHING AND THAT IS AN OLD REMINGTON 300 H&H I GOT AT A GARAGE SALE.LOADED MILD IT HAS NEVER FAILED AND IS INCREDIBLY ACCURATE.ALL THE OTHER SUPER MAG'S SIT IN THE SAFE.THANKS FOR A COMMON SENSE ARTICLE.I HOPE YOU KEEP WRITING.I LIKE YOUR STUFF.
weatherby30378
#10 Posted : Thursday, July 22, 2010 3:56:41 PM
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Excellent article and true to the point.
shooterone
#11 Posted : Friday, July 23, 2010 11:23:53 AM
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DEAR MR. S, I GREATLY ENJOYED YOUR ARTICLE. YOU HAVE TERRIFIC CHARACTER TO BE ABLE TO CRITIZE YOUR OWN CALIBERS. IT SHOWS THE REAL DEPTH OF A WRITER AND THAT OF A PERSON TO EVALUATE THEIR OWN WORK OR PROJECTS. OF COURSE MOST REAL RIFLEMAN KNOW THAT YOUR CALIBERS HAVE THEIR PLACEIN ARMAMENT. IT ALSO SHOWS ALOT ABOUT YOUR FINE CHARACTER TO BE ABLE TO, WHEN APPROPRIATE, TAKE A POSITION CONTRARY TO MR. KEITH.  YOU ARE CERTAINLY YOUR OWN MAN AND THIS IS WHY YOU ARE SO HIGHLY REGARDED BY YOUR READERS. YOU HAVE CERTAINLY BEEN THERE.  I HAVE READ JUST ABOUT ALL YOUR STUFF, AND FIND MYSELF IN TOTAL AGREEMENT FOR A GUY WHO HAS HAD A VERY MODEST HUNTING HISTORY OF WHITETALS, BLACK BEARS, AND AFEW EXOTICS. PLS. KEEP WRITING FOR THE REGULAR GUY, WHO LOVES FINE RIFLES AND RIFLE HUNTING.  YOUR ARTICLES ON SINGLE SHOTS, AFRICA, CUSTOM BOLT ACTIONS, BALLISTICS,  EXPLOITS OF BELL AND SELOUS, ETC  ARE WELL RECD. PLS WRITE MORE ON YOUR HUNTING EXPERIENCES. REGARDS,  MEL HOOVER    P.S.  THE .270 (sorry to the 30.06 boys) IS  NEVER A MISTAKE 

speed six
#12 Posted : Friday, July 23, 2010 3:04:10 PM
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Well, hello Ross Seyfried!  I wondered what happened to you after you left G&A!  Glad to read your writings again.  I always enjoyed them.

Re: the great .270.  I have no argument with your choice at all.  However, the .280 Remington is practically the same with the 7mm bullet. so I have a question for you or anyone else; is it not true that most 7mm bullets, at least in the "hunting weights", have slightly better BC and SD than practically anything else on the market?  Of any caliber?

Understand that I don't have a dog in the hunt in the great .270/.280 debate because I don't own either.  Nor do I have anything against either of them.  I inherited dad's .30-06, have my own .308 and a .30-30, as well as an old, slightly "modernized" .30-40.  I killed my first deer with a .351 Winchester, which I still have.  But I always wondered why no one sings the praises of the .280 when the bullets actually have a better BC and SD than practically anything, anywhere, anytime!  I know there is not that much difference in recoil.  Physics remain the same on this 3-D plane!

Enjoyed the article.  Keep it up!

CharleyM3
#13 Posted : Friday, July 23, 2010 7:11:41 PM
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Couldn't agree more.  I practive a lot with with my goto rifle, Reminton 700 PDM in 308.  I use light loads behind lead bullets for rabbits out to 100 yards, and serious crafter target loads on the known distance range out to 600M.  It has all the power and accuracy I need to bring deer to the table within 200M.  I have absolute faith in it.

Great great article.

hogwars
#14 Posted : Monday, August 02, 2010 3:11:20 AM
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I believe this is one of the best articles on "Choosing YOUR Ideal Hunting Catridge" Mine is the 35 Whelen. It provides everything that you expressed in your article with very managable recoil and bullet weight  from 200-250gr +. All my 35 Whelens are very accurate,from factory Remington 200gr core lokt , 250gr Nosler Partition and handloaded 200gr Sierrs Pro-Hunters This cartridge can perform on everything from whitetails to Brown Bear and Cape Buffalo. Why this neckedup 30-06 to .358 never caught on in the US is a wonder to me , what a versitle cartridge. Again a very good article that everyone can benefit from, Thanks

chuck
#15 Posted : Monday, August 16, 2010 9:23:14 AM
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I very well remember a term taught me when I got my first rifle and at 14 whined it was not a "bigger gun".. My dad let me try my Uncles very light weight 30.06 as my 22 (Marlin 39a that grew to be great friend) was kind of a kiddy gun. The Applicable term that many of us had to learn the REALLY hard way for most of the latest in belchfire super mags, be it rifle OR handguns with "flat shooting, tank stopping power..etc. is learned to late. AKA

"That gun, IT KILLS AT ONE END AND CRIPPLES AT OTHER".

Worked part time with guide in AK, He would take hunters to range and "make sure gun still zeroed etc". Real reason was to evaluate their shooting and gun handling. More then once we'd find a serious caae of flinches and 95% of hunters could rattle off balistics to 400 yards or so, but few could stay in black off hand at 50-100 yards. Guide carried a ole 30.06 open sites and I had my trusty little Rem 600, 308, open sites,various handloads. The rem was nice, small, and did the job very well. Had bud I hunted with that went thorugh about every calibur, 270 to 338 or more and never did kill much, but tore up targets and probably ton of powders handloading to find "Flat to 200 plus yards. Like most he was great, off bench, but knell or stand up and all bets off and he flinched badly.

NOTE the only way to knoow if "Flinchies" a issue is to have snap caps and bud load the gun, be it rifle OR handgun.. and pull the trigger, see what happens, even video it if possible. That also applies even more to handguns, as the supre mags etc, do kill at one end and cripple at other in most cases.

So end to novel, get what you can hit with that ballistically will do the job, and no, most critters do not know the difference of 200-400 fps, nor can most hold on at 4 inch at 300 or so yards. Fact is most should NOT shoot at 300 or so yards in first place, but did find in AK that AK "300-400 yard shot was often 160 or so in real world. Note last I read of AK, most kills were at 65 yards..and probably same or less in lower 48.. by the way, my favorite is 7x57M.. and 180 grain mild loads in 44 mag pistol. all time favorite is 90grains fo ff with 180 round ball in exact copry of Hawkins, heavy gun, Large Barrel and lock.. owned since 1961, now getting older, so while targets seems to be getting smaller and 50-100 yards futher, still puts them (@1900fps) where I aim them.. like all guns,

CementMan
#16 Posted : Monday, August 16, 2010 9:43:20 AM
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Wow!  Good Day!  I have missed Ross' articles for some time, so this is a joyful reunion!  Many examples of his wisdom and experience have stayed with me through the years (I am still tickled pink with Ballistol for my muzzleloader every time I use it!), and I appreciate reading what he writes.  My hunting buddy shoots a .270 and I shoot an '.06.  My buddy shoots a .270 because that's what his dad bought him many years ago and that is what his dad shot.  His technical knowledge is rather limited - he knows his game, he knows how to hunt, he is in great shape, and he knows where his bullet will hit.  He's taken 9 nice (one shot) bull elk in a row with his .270.  Neither he or the elk know that he can't do that.

I especially agree with the point about the difference in bullet performance these days.  I enjoyed, learned from, and respected both Keith and O'Connor for many years and have often thought what they might write today - with so many great bullets available.  It would be interesting.

Great article from Ross and great comments here! 

wildbill
#17 Posted : Monday, August 16, 2010 10:53:01 AM
Rank: Shooter

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Location: Salem, OR

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Thank you for a wonderful article Mr. Seyfried. As hunting season approaches, I can only hope more hunters have read this. Every year at our clubs annual sight in service, there seems to be a good number of folks show up with these ultra-large magnums with every hope of making cross canyon shots at elk at around 1000 yards. Of course here in western Oregon, there is really very few places to shoot at any range over 200 yards. The lack of practice for many of these hunters, even those with a "reasonable" big game rifle, is a severe enough handicap. The added feature of brutal recoil only makes things worse for them. I really need to print this article out and post it at my gun club for wider dissemination.

 

Kind Regards,

Bill 

Nick559
#18 Posted : Monday, August 16, 2010 11:18:54 AM
Rank: Shooter

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Location: St. Louis, Missouri

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Ross you couldn't be more correct.  I started with a 270 Winchester in 1972 (upon the advice from an old friend, mentor and WWII Sniper) as my first and then my main go to rifle.  After dozens of different cartridges (or should I say experiments) and 35 years later I switched back to a 270 again.  I could go on for an hour for the reasons why but you said it all in your article already.  I still use several other rifles but they are usually reserved for specialized situations.  One is a Wild West lever action Marlin, not in 45/70 as most would expect but in the pleasant shooting and handling 30/30 version.  Easy to shoot guns are easy to hit with.  Easy to hit with equates to deadly performace when the right bullet, cartridge and rifle is used in the hands of a competent marksman.

bigfishrock
#19 Posted : Monday, August 16, 2010 2:18:25 PM
Rank: Shooter

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Location: Germantown, WI

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I have a stainless and composite Model 70 Classic (in .270 Win), and thought the 140 grain failsafe bullets would be the answer to every maiden's prayer to use with it.  First shot at a whitetail, the buck jumped up and did a 180 in midair, then stood still, unaware where the shot came from.  There was some brush, so I didn't panic.  Second shot, the deer fell, dead as a stump.  The bullet behaved perfectly on impact.  But then I missed what I thought were fairly easy shots at 2 more deer.  I figured something must have came loose on the new gun.  All the screws were tight.  At 25 yards with some less expensive shells, the gun was perfect.  Tried again with the failsafes, and I couldn't hit a snuffcan (2.60" dia) even once in 7 shots, still at 25 yards.  Back to a different brand, and the rifle shot like a dream.  Anyone else have problems with the failsafes like this?

RCB1917
#20 Posted : Monday, August 16, 2010 7:58:11 PM
Rank: Shooter

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Location: ne Florida

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Ross, I still have a pic of you in my files shoveling "powder" into a military brass case, about 2 feet high. I think the article was on reloading for pistol bullets. And as i recall you liked .340's as much as I did!!

BH206L3
#21 Posted : Wednesday, August 18, 2010 12:12:35 AM
Rank: Shooter

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Location: East Haddam. CT

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Well Stated, I spent a lot of years chasing the purple dragon of perfect rifle and cartridges. My seconded centerfire was a 7mm Remington Mag. I killed a lot of game with it in 1971 and 72, then I when on a rifle buying binge, well a long story short, I bought a Blaser R-93, partly because of Ross, and the ease of transport. It came with a 7mm RM barrel and I was going to sell that barrel and buy another. Well I rediscovered how good the 7mm RM is and so far 19 head of game since 2006. I had it real good in 71. but I was young and well it take time to mature.
twill65392
#22 Posted : Wednesday, August 18, 2010 8:21:46 AM
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Location: Loveland, CO

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It is refreshing to reconnect with Ross.  It has been way too long since reading his work.  Of course it doesn't hurt that I am in total agreement with all he says.  Keep his stuff coming.

hoghunter284
#23 Posted : Thursday, August 26, 2010 3:31:18 PM
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Thank you so much you are so right on!!!
swdw
#24 Posted : Wednesday, September 01, 2010 11:20:53 AM
Rank: Shooter

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Location: CO

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All the reasons above is why I chose a rifle not considered. The 338 Marlin Express. It actually has LESS recoil than a 30-06 but has a virtually identical trajectory. Actually it has the same recoil as a .270. And, before switching to lefty, I too used a 270. Never took more than one shot to drop an animal.

Now I shoot left handed, so the rifle allows me to shoot comfortably, chamber a round smoothly, and is *fun* to shoot. Which means more practice with it.

I caught grief by many people for using a 270 when everyone thought the '06 was the go to gun. Now I catch grief for using the 338MX because people think if it doesn't have the word "Magnum" behind it, it can't kill anything. Funny how the 30-30 and 32 Winchester special were used on everything when they were the premiere cartridges.

I guess animals got smarter and quit falling down when the bullet wasn't fired from the latest wiz bang caliber. :-)
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